The U.S. Senate votes this week on a number of key cabinet appointees. Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., has been a at some of their hearings, particularly Health and Human Services nominee Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. (Sanders is the ranking member on the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions committee.)
Sanders spoke with Vermont Edition's Mikaela Lefrak on Tuesday about Trump's first weeks in office.
The following transcript has been lightly edited for clarity and length.
Sen. Bernie Sanders: This is going to be a huge impact on Vermont and on the whole country, because what Trump is doing very rapidly is moving us to an oligarchic form of society. When you have the richest guy in the world, worth over $400 billion, Elon Musk, running kind of wild all over Washington, single-handedly dismembering agencies that were created by Congress, when you have the three wealthiest people becoming several hundred billion dollars richer since Trump was elected, when you have billionaires all over his cabinets, that's issue number one. You've got a government of the billionaire class, by the billionaire class, for the billionaire class. That's [issue] number one that impacts Vermont, every state in the Union.
Mikaela Lefrak: You mentioned Elon Musk. Musk and his DOGE team are doing work within federal agencies to cut federal funding 鈥� funding Congress has already approved. To what degree are you and other senators being made aware of what's taking place within these agencies and the specifics of what the team is doing?
Sen. Bernie Sanders: Let's be clear, it's not that he's going around cutting programs. He does not have the right to do that. All right. Congress has long debates. We got a Budget Committee. We go through the whole process, and you allocate a certain amount of money. No one individual, not the richest guy in the world, Mr. Musk, or anybody else, has the right to say, oh, well, you know what? USAID, which keeps tens of thousands of children, the poorest children in the world, alive, feeds the hungry, you know, provides health care to the very poorest people 鈥� oh, we've got rid of that agency. We don't like it. We don't like this. We don't like that.
That is not how a democracy operates. So, you know, they are kind of operating in secrecy. But most importantly, they don't have the power to do what they are doing, and that is a real threat to the foundations of American democracy.
Mikaela Lefrak: So then what happens next? I mean, you say they don't have the power to do it, but they're doing it.
Sen. Bernie Sanders: Well, hopefully the courts are going to stand up to it, and hopefully the American people are going to stand up to what they are doing. And that is the political struggle we are engaged in right now.
Mikaela Lefrak: How do you rate Democratic Senate leadership's response to Trump's actions in the past month?
Sen. Bernie Sanders: It's very difficult, as I've just indicated. This is a very difficult moment. I think our job now is to rally the American people. Look, you can agree or disagree on whether or not we deal aggressively with climate change. Trump and his friends are going to dismantle virtually all of the programs that we have worked for for energy efficiency and sustainable energy. Disagree with me. Okay, fine, but you cannot allow this country to sink into an autocracy and to an authoritarian society.
Mikaela Lefrak: Do you see your Democratic colleagues in the Senate working together on some sort of unified campaign against these policies?
Sen. Bernie Sanders: It's very difficult, and I think some are doing a better job than others. But again, my hope is that we come together to understand, and I don't mean to be flippant here or rhetorical, but we just cannot allow ourselves to become a government of the billionaire class, by the billionaire class and for the billionaire class.
Now, I'm a member of the Budget Committee, and what's going to be the process that will be beginning is a budget bill and a reconciliation bill, which the Republicans literally hope to be able, under Trump's leadership, to provide huge, underlying huge tax breaks for the wealthiest people in this country at a time when we have already massive income and wealth inequality, while they make incredibly large cuts in Medicaid, education and other important programs. And when we're talking about cuts in Medicaid, that will be devastating to Vermont. So what we are going to be engaged in very shortly is the question of whether we give gigantic tax breaks to billionaires and cut funding for programs that working people and children and the elderly depend upon.
Mikaela Lefrak: The Senate is voting this week on a number of President Trump's cabinet picks, including Tulsi Gabbard, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and Kash Patel. Sen. Chris Murphy has suggested that Senate Democrats should not vote to confirm any of Trump's picks until Elon Musk stops his actions within federal agencies. Do you agree with that tactic?
Sen. Bernie Sanders: Well, it's not going to matter all that much, because the Republicans have the votes to put them through. I have voted against virtually every one of Trump's nominees because they are not good nominees. I voted for one or two because I thought they could do the job. We will see what happens in the coming weeks.
Mikaela Lefrak: And lastly, can I ask you about your legislation that you've introduced alongside Republican Sen. Josh Hawley of Missouri to put a 10% cap on credit card interest rates? This would aim to ease credit card debt for Americans, and it aligns with President Trump's campaign promise to impose a temporary cap on credit card interest rates. Has it been difficult to work with your GOP counterparts on 鈥�
Sen. Bernie Sanders: On this one, look, that's exactly why we're doing it. Look, Trump said a lot of things during the campaign, and I think he will not follow through on many of those things. One of the things he said, which I happen to agree with, he said that right now, you have people who are listening to the show, who are struggling economically, paying off the minimum that they can on their credit cards, and then are looking at 20, 25% interest rates on the credit card. And that's just usury. That is outrageous, and the credit card companies of Wall Street make huge amounts of money. So what I've always believed that there should be a cap on credit card interest rates. Trump proposed that during the campaign. So I said, that's great. Trump proposed it. Let's introduce it. A guy named Josh Hawley, senator from Missouri, very conservative guy, he agreed with me. We're going forward together. So I would love to see that implemented. It will save working people a whole lot of money on their interest rates.
Broadcast on Wednesday, Feb. 12, 2025, at noon; rebroadcast at 7 p.m.
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