Attorney General Charity Clark has sued the current Trump administration four times since the President's inauguration in late January. Clark and the solicitor general, John Rose, spoke with Vermont Edition's Mikaela Lefrak on Tuesday about the lawsuits.
The following transcript has been lightly edited for clarity and length.
Mikaela Lefrak: Attorney General, just how many lawsuits [against the Trump administration] are you part of at this point?
Charity Clark: Well, some of them are top secret, so I can't tell you the actual number, but the number of lawsuits that we filed at this recording is four, and some of them kind of overlap. They're in different jurisdictions, but the total number is four right now.
Mikaela Lefrak: What do you see as the most pressing of these four cases?
Charity Clark: The one that seems to, in my mind, have the largest impact, would be the , and that is the case involving a federal funding freeze. It鈥檚 very widespread in terms of topical area, from WIC to public safety, veterans issues 鈥� all types of issues were impacted. But also the amount of money at stake is very large.
Mikaela Lefrak: On Monday, , along with 21 other states, resulted in a federal judge blocking Trump's funding cuts for medical research. What was the argument that you made for blocking these cuts?
Charity Clark: The legislative branch has been assigned the power of the purse under the Constitution. They get to spend the taxpayers鈥� dollars. And what happened in this move by the Trump administration is that the Trump administration wanted that job themselves, and so they disregarded what Congress had decided and tried to go in a different direction that they can't do. It's unconstitutional, and they went about it in a way that also violated the federal statutes.
Mikaela Lefrak: Are there other cases that you've been a part of that have already slowed some of Trump's plans?
Charity Clark: Yeah, all of the cases that we've been involved with have slowed the wishes of the Trump administration, and that is because they all violated the Constitution or federal laws. In every one we have prevailed in getting what's called a temporary restraining order in place, which would block the efforts that the Trump administration was putting in place.
Mikaela Lefrak: You said that there are these temporary restraining orders. What happens next? I mean, temporary is 鈥�
Charity Clark: Temporary. Yes. The next step is called a preliminary injunction. Some of these were at the period now where we are, either we have one in place, or we're about to perform an oral argument in front of the court, arguing our case, and the other side will argue their case, and that will be of a more long-term nature if it's granted.
Mikaela Lefrak: Solicitor General, tell us a little bit more about your role in these complicated lawsuits that the state is a part of.
John Rose: Sure. So we're looking at these executive orders as they come out from the federal government, every single one, every day they're coming out. And we're taking a look at the orders in terms of, what's the impact on Vermont? How can we be effective in challenging these orders, and do we have good legal arguments to stop them? And so my role is to sort of do some of the legal research and analysis around those issues. I communicate with other states who are considering filing litigation around the executive orders, and we determine whether it's right for Vermont, and we make recommendations, and Attorney General Clark reviews all the information that we provide and decides whether Vermont should be part of that case.
Mikaela Lefrak: That brings me to a question about the balance of power. Trump has been pushing back on federal judges鈥� authority over the executive branch, and Vice President JD Vance recently stated that judges aren't allowed to control Trump's legitimate power. As you two see it, what is the judiciary's role in the legislative process?
Charity Clark: The judiciary gets the last word. I mean, it's their job to interpret statute and constitutions. When I go to court, when John goes to court, we talk to the judge. We stand up. When the judge talks to me, I am standing up. We literally stand up for the judiciary in this country, and frankly, I was very disturbed by that comment that JD Vance made. I think it's un-American to disobey a court's order. I don't think the judiciary is very excited about it, either, and we'll see how this plays out.
John Rose: The courts are sort of the key hallmark of our system and how it works, and they stand for the rule of law and upholding the rule of law, and when we see threats to their independence, that's very troubling to all of us at the Attorney General's office.
Mikaela Lefrak: During the first Trump administration, your office was part of, what was it, 60 lawsuits? Do you know how many you were a part of during the Biden administration?
Charity Clark: I know we did sue the FDA under the Biden administration. John, do you remember if we have had any other lawsuits?
John Rose: We didn't. I don't think we saw the level of sort of unlawfulness from the Biden administration that we've seen so far from the Trump administration. We鈥檝e certainly intervened in some cases or joined, defensively, lawsuits that relate to Biden-era policies, and we've done that recently to sort of protect some of the policies that we believe represent Vermont values at the federal level. I think the activity was much lower during the Biden administration.
Mikaela Lefrak: It鈥檚 such a partisan time right now that I'm kind of thinking on behalf of Vermonters who might have voted for President Trump and are saying, "Hey, why so many lawsuits against President Trump and not any against President Biden?"
Charity Clark: I personally think that President Trump sees himself as a bold leader who doesn't have to follow the rules, and I think that's what we're seeing play out here. And the truth is, no one is above the law, not even the president, and we all have to follow the rules.
Mikaela Lefrak: What has Vermonters鈥� response been to these lawsuits? What have you been hearing?
Charity Clark: I have been honestly stunned by the feedback that we've gotten between, you know, my my campaign email address and the work email address. I think we've gotten over 100 responses, which for us is extremely unusual, and almost all of them say the exact same thing. And the thing that they say is, thank you.
Mikaela Lefrak: The attorneys general seem to be kind of this last line of defense, in many people's eyes, against some of these policies.
Charity Clark: We have the power to represent our states in court, and so when Donald Trump's administration is violating the Constitution or they're violating federal law, it is my job to represent Vermont in court to uphold the rule of law. I mean, when I was sworn in, I swore an oath, and the oath literally says, I swear to uphold the Constitution of the United States, so help me, God, and that is what I do every day.
Mikaela Lefrak: What did the time between the November election and the January inauguration look like for you all? John, I'm particularly curious about you because there are a lot of these policies that Trump instituted on his first day in office that were based on campaign promises. So they're things that people were kind of preparing for for a while.
John Rose: Yeah, that's how things were different this time around than they were last time around. There was a sort of a playbook from the administration. We had a 900-page document in Project 2025, that he's been following pretty well since then. So we've had some time to prepare and to start to work through some of the legal strategies aimed at countering some of the worst things that he's been doing since the start of his administration. So I think, on the one hand, it's been more difficult, because they've had some experience doing this now, and I think that the administration has been more prepared about how to do certain things. I think there's still been a lot of chaotic action so far from the administration, and it's caused, you know, the need to sort of sort through things that are real and in effect, and the things that he's just saying, to create confusion and chaos. But at the same time, we've had more of a preview of what's going to happen this time, and so some more time to prepare. So it was a certainly a busy time between November and the inauguration, for sure.
Mikaela Lefrak: Let鈥檚 turn for a moment to some local issues. The Conservation Law Foundation is suing the Vermont Agency of Natural Resources for violating the terms of the Global Warming Solutions Act and not meeting the carbon emissions goals within it. On what grounds are you arguing that the state has not violated these terms?
Charity Clark: Well, I don't want to go into a lot of details on our defense of a case publicly, but I do feel pretty confident about this case. You know, we represent the state when the state is sued. This is an example of that, and you know, we will continue to do that until the issue is resolved.
Mikaela Lefrak: And you're also suing a number of large oil companies, alleging that they had covered up information about the effects of fossil fuel emissions and those effects on the environment. What is the status of that case? Can you tell us more?
Charity Clark: Yeah, I'm really excited about that case, because we actually sued before I was even attorney general, and it kind of had been languishing in court, and we are back on track after many years of that, and we were able to proceed with what's called discovery. That's the part of the lawsuit where you kind of exchange information, and there's depositions, and we can kind of really go ahead with that case. The premise of that case is that for generations, the fossil fuel industry was lying to us about what the impact of their products could have on the environment, and that was depriving consumers of making the uninformed choice about what product to buy, and that is a violation of the Consumer Protection Act. So that is what the basis of that lawsuit is, and I'm really excited to move ahead with that and be representing Vermont in that case.
Mikaela Lefrak: One of your main focuses as Attorney General has been consumer protection, and the Trump administration has recently put a partial stop work order at the CFPB [Consumer Financial Protection Bureau]. Are you planning to take action on that, or does it affect your work at the state level in any way?
Charity Clark: Well, we're monitoring it very closely. You're right, I do consider myself a consumer advocate. I am a consumer lawyer. I'm also one of the reasons why I'm a consumer advocate is because when you protect consumers, you protect the marketplace. You know consumers need to have trust to invest. And the CFPB was created, of course, in the wake of the financial crisis in 2008 and I think the CFPB does critical, critical work. It would be such a mistake to to do away with that agency here in Vermont. We also, in addition to the work that the Attorney General's Office does in the consumer space, the Department of Financial Regulation is sort of the CFPB arena, and we make referrals to them and work closely with them on issues related to consumer, issues related to finance.
Mikaela Lefrak: Are there other lawsuits that you all are actively working on and putting together? Is four going to turn into five, six, seven, eight?
Charity Clark: I anticipate it will. And that is because even the first day that Donald Trump took office, he put a lot of executive orders into place, and has continued to put more in place since then. But a lot of them don't actually do anything other than tell an agency or department to come up with recommendations, essentially, so they're not really actionable. Even if they suggest that something that's unconstitutional or illegal be done or suggested by a department or an agency. So we're waiting to get those recommendations and other information as it becomes available to see if, again, a law was violated or the Constitution was violated.
Broadcast on Wednesday, Feb. 12, 2025, at noon; rebroadcast at 7 p.m.
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